By the goddess, you've turned my draft into a ugly wall of text.
The main page is meant to be fancy. A level of asymmetry looks pleasing to the eye and draws the eye to certain groupings so that headings become secondary, it's simply easy for the reader to remember the layout.
So please, just think about how it actually looks before you act. The most important function of the main page is to look pretty.
Well, I'm sorry you thought it was ugly, but I thought the symmetry made it look better. I even tried to make sure the lists had approximately equal numbers of items to keep it well-formatted.
The asymmetry it has right now actually makes it look something of a mess, actually. At least, I'm presuming that you don't really want to leave those gaps under the "Equipment" section? There's kind of a lot of gaps and repeats, here.
I'd also say that some of the more important sections, like potential, should be near the front, and some pages, like food, scrolls, potions, and breed power, are things I frequently use even now that I'm not a new player, so I would say they really belong in a place where it's easy to get to them.
But still, if you don't want me messing it up, then I won't touch it...
Firstly: if you think a giant unbroken list looks good, then I don't know what to tell you. That's a very Asian way of doing things and I have no idea if you're Asian or not, so maybe you just don't understand western design.
Horizontal symmetry in a table list is good. However, the symmetry I'm talking about here is vertical repetition. The more you repeat a similar design, the more confusing it becomes.
The main page is not Category:Content, and shouldn't be treated like it is. If you want that style of list, then maybe you should put it on Category:Content as like a master index.
However, I am trying to layout the main page like a logical progression of what a newbie would want to know. I start a new game and ask myself, "What do I want to know?" and the answer is not potential or breed power; rather, I want to know how to kill things, so I need a map and weapons and spells. And you just don't seem to understand that at all, you leap straight more complex topics instead of sticking to simpler ones.
I keep on stressing this because it's important: the main page is for newbies.
Moreover, I am also trying to think beyond what's there and to what I could be doing, most obviously in adding images. However, that requires space. A list of links doesn't lend itself to that sort of thing.
Secondly: a draft is a draft. I leave unfinished crap on there because I am spending hours trying out designs and want to take a break.
Finally: the main page is not meant as convenient index of links for experienced players to quickly access advanced concepts like potential and breed power. While a newbie may want to know about these things, the information contained within is simply not practical for them.
Breed power itself is an offshoot of ranch and the fact that it isn't more prominently displayed is the exact sort of problem the "dump everything" paradigm creates. Ranch itself is an offshoot of deed, so why do we need all three articles linked from the front page?
The logical progression here is that a person would want to know what sorts of buildings they can made (i.e. deeds) and then they see the ranch and then they'll want to know about breed power. The wiki should enable that sort of progression.
Actually, potential is probably one of the most important things for players to learn when they're coming to this game, presuming they have some background in RPGs, since it's one of the most different things from most standard RPGs.
An overwhelming portion of the time in the game is spent on managing potentials - you do quests almost exclusively to gain platinum just to pump up potentials to get more skills. And that's especially true in the early game, when you're trying to grab up all the skills you need.
And I put breed power in there as it's actually more useful than the bestiary page in its current iteration, since it is capable of sorting monster by level far more easily than any other page in the wiki at the moment.
For a new player, I think it's safe to presume they'll know what a sword is, considering they even found such a niche game as Elona in the first place, but that they're probably going to be newer to the concept of spell stocks and not recognize the effects of several potions or spells by their names alone, since there's no in-game help on what a Gain Attribute Scroll or Oracle Scroll does.
(... And suddenly, I'm too Asian? In a partially translated Japanese game?)
An overwhelming portion of the game is spent managing your potential, but the start of the game is not. It's the unfun grindy part of the game and is why experienced players and min/maxers play Elona. It's not a concept that needs to be explained in great detail to newbies, anybody who has gotten to the point where they need to worry about it can scroll down a little bit.
Indeed, that is why all the character stuff is below. You'll encounter it almost immediately and it's a large topic, but until you're actually well into the game, most of the concepts don't actually need to be understood beyond "bigger numbers are better".
As for breed power, you don't just use an article for a purpose that it is not intended (well, not on the main page). If you feel the need to create a proper bestiary, then again that is a problem with the wiki that you may choose to do something about.
I disagree that people will know what a sword is in relation to Elona. It's no different from scrolls, potions and rods: they will want to know what weapons and armor they can get. Getting better gear is a newbie's first priority because it's the most immediately obvious thing to do. And crazily enough, you talk about scrolls and potions and yet I never removed them and they're higher than you placed them... so I'm not sure what your point is.
And finally, I have no idea what you are implying, but the difference in design philosophy between Eastern and Western websites is a widely acknowledged and occurs due to the differences in which the way the languages are written.
Also, as an organizational note, you're sticking Spells inside the equipment segment of the list.
The "General" section looks better with the lines than just being a blob of links, but if you prefer horizontal lines, and that's perfectly fine, then why not just head them with "inventory", "game concepts", "NPCs", and "World"? (You could probably divide it into quarters to make it not look the same as the other lists if that pleases you.)
Because apparently, for all the insults you are hurling, the only thing you didn't like was just the vertical lists - things that can be changed with civil discussion rather than declaring someone has an inferior design sense because they're "too Asian".
With that aside, I'm still going to say that potential is the biggest part of the game, and it's the one you will encounter most immediately, even beyond getting decent equipment. You need to understand platinum coins, trainers, and potential immediately, since they will be your first real goal, yes, more important than getting good equipment.
And if you consider potential management the "boring" portion of the game, then you're probably not going to stick with Elona for very long, anyway, since it's also about 95% of the game, especially early on. You quite simply don't have the skills to survive combat at the start of the game, and need to figure out how to buy things like Greater Evasion, and then train them up before you can ever go beyond putits, and to buy those, you need skills like Gardening, Cooking, and Performer, and to use them, you need to keep its potential high, and to do that, you need more platinum. Even once you buy the combat skills, they're worthless until you train them and that, again, means platinum.
The main quest is a mere distraction from the platinum farming that offers a quick chance to get some platinum coins with a relatively easy dungeon dive once your skills are high enough. Combat itself is often pointless, unless against bubbles, since it doesn't train your skills much, anyway.
And while I could certainly rewrite the bestiary, if there's good reason to believe that any charts or organization I perform will be treated as an affront and removed for being "too Asian", there's not exactly much reason for me to go out of my way, now is there?
1. I will re-add luck. I initially removed a bunch of stats because they have no obvious use and there are so few ways of changing them. Then I just shrugged and readded them.
2. As for Spells, they are a form of itemization.
3. You don't need headings for everything. Dividing it into quarters would require some thought as it may end with more problems than a vertical list would.
4. I have no idea what you're going on about. It honestly sounds more like you're looking for ways to be offended. I never said you were "too Asian" at any point. If being Asian was a problem, then I certainly wouldn't be here.
East Asian languages simply lend themselves to compact layout due to the sheer number of characters, the squarish/monospace nature of those characters, and that they have less sentence punctuation. Chinese, Japanese and Korean are all written vertically right-to-left and horizontally left-to-right, so readers literally view layouts differently.
That is to say that they take advantage of things that simply aren't available in English to pack information comparatively tightly without losing readability. It's not meant as some controversial racist slur when I say that cultures that use completely different languages have different design paradigms tailored to their language's strengths and around their weaknesses.
I suppose that you thought that your design was better for a main page guarantees that you will be insulted regardless. Then you go about looking for more reasons to be insulted and claim to be the victim.
I don't care if you make tabled lists elsewhere, there are plenty of them on the wiki. However, the main page needs to have some standards.
If you think you can do better, then copy the entire page and show me. Don't sit there hiding behind your pride crying foul and using it as an excuse to do nothing.
At least the draft is better than what we currently have. It could have a link to ether disease though.
Some of the most spoily topics could be marked as such or separated. Gods is good example.
I agree with potential management getting high exposure on the main page. At least something about it should be mentioned. As has been said, the game is all about it. Letting people know that right from the start will save them the frustration of wasting hours on a game that really is not something they like.
The point is, exactly why should I be working to make this wiki better when you're so blatantly hostile to any changes?
I don't need to work on this wiki, people only do so when they're interested in doing so, and coming out to repeatedly insult people who try to assist never exactly encourages people when you request their help.
And request help you did - you asked for feedback and edits, and when I gave them, you insulted me -repeatedly- for doing so.
The fact that you not only fail to apologize for your actions, but insult me for being insulted by your insults just shows how incapable of dealing with others or asking for their help you really are...
Surprise: collaboration involves a lot of yelling at each other. If people just sit around jerking each other off, nothing gets done. If you think I went too far, then fine, I'm sorry; sometimes people are mean on the internet. But I'd far prefer you keep yelling back and call me a stupid dumbass so I can tell what you actually care about.
I have taken on board all of your feedback. However, as far as I can see, you're entirely focused on documentation and simply want the links there. I tell you again, the main page is more about design and presentation.
The easiest way for you to collaborate without stepping on anybody's toes is to create your own draft so I can see exactly what you mean. When coders work on a project, each coder creates their own branch; they don't all work on the trunk because that causes problems when major changes are made. It's not a revolutionary idea.
What's more, on a wiki, where nobody gets paid, and everyone does things voluntarily for, at most, the ability to have data organized for themselves at a later date, and elsewise just because they simply enjoy participating, not driving off volunteers with yelling is kind of critical. Lines like, "Don't sit there hiding behind your pride crying foul and using it as an excuse to do nothing," don't encourage people to put up time and effort into wiki pages, it encourages doing something more enjoyable with one's time than being yelled at.
If I were to choose to spend time working on a large sorted table, it would be because I either wanted that table for my own personal use, or because I genuinely enjoyed participating in the wiki.
Although many Elona+ creatures are getting regular organization, the old Elona bestiary is a mess of inconsistent pages and tons of red links. Just look at hands for an example of many creatures put into a single page with little specific data. Breed power itself is flooded with red links.
Revising the bestiary to be useful means having to fix all the red links, which takes a considerable amount of time since that also means needing to get and plug in all the statistics data. (Something I'm not even sure what process is the fastest for acquiring that data - do you use wizard mode and gene engineering?)
Nobody's taken the time to do the thankless task of actually standardizing those pages yet, though, because it's just tedious and.. thankless.
Collaboration does involve yelling and arguing and fighting, otherwise it's just a circlejerk. If somebody makes a stupid decision and nobody calls them out on it, then they will continue making the same stupid decision over and over again. Nobody learns anything and the overall result is crappier for everybody else.
Especially when you do work intended for the public because you are going to have plenty of people sitting around saying, "It sucks and you suck" without telling you why.
I told you that you did something wrong (not taking into account the intended audience of the Main Page), explained why (repetitive, densely packed tabled lists with little white space are unfriendly because English is stupid) and gave you an alternative (make your own sandbox or put it onto Category:Content).
Instead of accepting what I said and doing better, you got worked up and threatened to leave (rather, to not do anything) over what amounts to spilt milk.
Threatening to leave is one of the most mocked topics on the internet because it is incredibly egocentric and instantly loses any and all respect you may have earned. Try it in any community and the result will be the same: "Don't let the door hit you on the way out" and many communities will just outright ban you.
However, I guess you've already figured out that you need the wiki far more than it needs you, so consider your respect restored. And I do respect what you have to say because you're the only person who's telling me what I want to hear as opposed to giving blind approval. As above, I may like jerking off but it doesn't actually help me in the slightest.
Now, if you want to discuss details for improving the bestiary or any part of the wiki, then I'd suggest writing about it in the comments, talk pages or in a blog rather than here. I imagine you could talk to User:SiamJai directly since he's working on it.